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October 21, 2013
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I just lucked into a Monson 357 maximum over the weekend and began educating myself on some of their problems like flame cutting of the top strap. This got me thinking about S&W's solution for their alloy frames which is a blast shield above the forcing cone. Since these shields are replaceable and cheap I was wondering if anyone had try to fit one to our Dan Wesson's? I feel like the shape of the shield would hold it in place with just tension. Or better yet maybe we can get EWK to make something just for us that will slip around the forcing cone under tension, but then have a small ear/tab the is bent up on each side to help retain/locate the shield to the top strap.
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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How about a couple of layers of aluminum foil ? Replace after use. Or use bullets of 170 grains or higher. Some say 158 grains is enough but why take a chance.
October 21, 2013
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I wouldn't think that aluminum foil would stand up to any number of shots. I am planning to run the 180gr xtp projectiles for my loads but the idea crossed my mind in order to make using the 125gr projectiles possible.
DWF Supporters
July 12, 2020
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Doesn't look like an expensive part???? Order one and if it doesn't fit as is, modify it or use it as a template for a design of your own.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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Schoolboy said
..........Since these shields are replaceable and cheap I was wondering if anyone had try to fit one to our Dan Wesson's?
Find me some S&W part#s. I will play with it and maybe have my LGS take a shot at it.
October 21, 2013
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Scout728 said
Schoolboy said
..........Since these shields are replaceable and cheap I was wondering if anyone had try to fit one to our Dan Wesson's?
Find me some S&W part#s. I will play with it and maybe have my LGS take a shot at it.
Try these links from midwest and numrichs.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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I bought 2. If they don't fit, I will see if my LGS will make some.
October 21, 2013
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Scout728 I am looking forward to your findings because I got to inspect my new supermag while doing the paperwork yesterday and it definitely has flame cutting on the top strap. I also wasn't quite prepared just how damn big it is.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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If it even works, removing barrel may compromise fit. Stay tuned.
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LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD:
If it doesn't work, having my LGS make them is a worthy DWF Member Service. Just like all my other DWF community projects, it will be a non-profit but also non-loss venture. Any LGS/Machinist labor cost will be factored into the initial run. I would likely gauge interest and written reservations to maximize the initial first order to keep the per piece cost down.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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From S&W:
"Thank you for contacting Smith & Wesson. We do not send out blast shields. They are factory installed only. You will need to send the firearm in for evaluation..."
Which begs me to question if the parts offered above are OEM S&W parts.
S&Ws position on steel frames: (Which has also been the concurrence on the DWF)
"Self-Limiting on Steel: On standard steel S&W revolvers (like N-frames or K-frames), flame cutting is typically a minor, self-limiting condition that cuts a shallow groove and then stops without compromising structural integrity"
We may be chasing a solution for which there is no problem.......(unless you have a Ruger .357MAX)
The ordered blast shields arrived. The bend is too acute an angle. There is too much space between barrel and Top strap. Looking at the S&W top strap, it may have a lug that the piece snaps into. It slides in with nothing to hold it.
I will ask my LGS.
August 29, 2009
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While you guys were messing around with this, I checked a couple of my S&W revolvers that have a blast shield. Notably, the N-Frame 329PD .44 mag has a top strap "close" to the thickness of a .357SM (about .010 shy). There's a little more engineering & design in these shields on a S&W revolver than appears at first sight. I've attached a bunch of photo's here. First, the frame is inletted to help hold it in place and keep if from sliding out toward the front of the gun. You can see it in the photos. Next is the stamping of the metal - you can see that the edges of those two tabs are cut at an angle like a knife blade. When the shield is placed in the frame, and the barrel is screwed into the frame and depressing those two tabs, the tabs grip into the barrel and prevent the shield from moving sideways. The shield is made of thin SS, and I assume it is hardened and has some "spring" to it. The tension on the barrel keep it in place and the tabs prevent from moving sideways, the inlet on the frame keep it from blasting out forward toward the muzzle. There is also a U notch cut in to the shield to accommodate the sight screw, and it appears that the sight screw extends just a single thread below the top strap but also helps keep it in place.
All these features enable S&W to use this shield, but they are designed into the gun. They're lacking on a DW revolver, and merely jamming one of those shields into the space between the barrel and the top strap won't hold it in place....it will blast out of the frame on the first round and I hope the shooter is wearing glasses!
I hope this adds some info. for your guys working on it. I'd like to see it work on a DW Revolver, but I'm stuck on finding an idea to hold it SAFELY in place.
February 16, 2016
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DakotaJack said
I've attached a bunch of photo's here.
Very good, clear pics that show the points you raised. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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October 21, 2013
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Looking at what DakotaJack posted and what Scout728 found with the fit from the frame to the barrel its pretty safe to say we are hosed on a simple drop in solution. Every other option I can think of is going to require some sort of frame modification like S&W did. I was kinda hoping that if the blast shield could be made so that it goes completely around the forcing cone it would create a chinese finger trap effect. But given the forces involved I don't think even that would keep the shield in place. I am still curious to hear what Scout728's LGS says but I don't have high hopes at this point for a non permanent modification based solution.
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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Dan Wesson discovered that the flame etching hardened the steel and the etching was self limiting . The bigger problem was the erosion of the forcing cone from using shorter,lighter bullets. That is why they included an extra barrel with each 357 Supermag they sold. When folks buy a used 40/740 without the box and extra barrel they should try to find one of those extra barrels on eBay or GB. They used to be often found for about $100. I would buy them as often as I saw them. One of my better investments. They routinely sell for around $200 now .
October 21, 2013
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Ole Dog said
Dan Wesson discovered that the flame etching hardened the steel and the etching was self limiting . The bigger problem was the erosion of the forcing cone from using shorter,lighter bullets. That is why they included an extra barrel with each 357 Supermag they sold. When folks buy a used 40/740 without the box and extra barrel they should try to find one of those extra barrels on eBay or GB. They used to be often found for about $100. I would buy them as often as I saw them. One of my better investments. They routinely sell for around $200 now .
Interesting that the flame cutting hardened the steel and stopped the problem. If that was the case I wonder why Ruger gave up on them beyond just public perception that the guns were faulty?
I assume its safe to say that the Supermag barrel tubes are different than their magnum brothers? As in a 357 mag barrel can't be substituted for a 357 max physically not just in barrel twist?
Also safe to assume that CZ doesn't have replacements?
Did EKW ever make replacement super mag barrels?
I don't plan to shot mine a lot, but I'd like to put 200-300 rounds a year through it. On that note the box of starline brass showed up earlier in the week and I put two box's of 180gr xtps on order last night. All that's left is to find a bottle of imr 4227 Before my pick up date next week.
Dans Club
December 7, 2020
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I assume its safe to say that the Supermag barrel tubes are different than their magnum brothers? As in a 357 mag barrel can't be substituted for a 357 max physically not just in barrel twist?
Also safe to assume that CZ doesn't have replacements?
Did EKW ever make replacement super mag barrels?
.357 Magnum are on Dan Wesson Small Frames. .357 Maximum/Supermag are Large Frames
CZ Sold Out a year or two ago.
I think if EWK ever did a Large Frame Barrel it was .44 Magnum
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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The 357 Max barrel is the size of 44mag,45 Colt or any of the Supermags . It is even more robust because the bore is smaller. Ditto the cylinder. Heavier because the chambers are smaller. The 357 Mag may be one of the strongest revolvers ever made ,IMHO . The threads on the frame end are intrinsic to the model 40/740. The DW 360 is also a large frame barrel. Same as a 40/740 .
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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Schoolboy, Ruger was scared of liability. The sold 11,000 of the 357 Max and destroyed the unsold 5000. Perhaps DWs are actually more robust than Rugers? If a 357 is sent back to Ruger for repairs the keep it and offer any gun they make as a replacement. Silhouette shooters will have them rebored to 454 Casull as it is the only revolver Ruger made with a cylinder long enough .
BTW, 200 or 300 rounds a year are very few. Top Silhouette shooters would shoot 20 to 30 thousand a year. I suspect if a max has a lot of flame etching it was used for Silhouette.
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Moderators
January 24, 2009
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DakotaJack said
While you guys were messing around with this, I checked a couple of my S&W revolvers that have a blast shield. Notably, the N-Frame 329PD .44 mag has a top strap "close" to the thickness of a .357SM (about .010 shy). There's a little more engineering & design in these shields on a S&W revolver than appears at first sight. I've attached a bunch of photo's here. First, the frame is inletted to help hold it in place and keep if from sliding out toward the front of the gun. You can see it in the photos. Next is the stamping of the metal - you can see that the edges of those two tabs are cut at an angle like a knife blade. When the shield is placed in the frame, and the barrel is screwed into the frame and depressing those two tabs, the tabs grip into the barrel and prevent the shield from moving sideways. The shield is made of thin SS, and I assume it is hardened and has some "spring" to it. The tension on the barrel keep it in place and the tabs prevent from moving sideways, the inlet on the frame keep it from blasting out forward toward the muzzle. There is also a U notch cut in to the shield to accommodate the sight screw, and it appears that the sight screw extends just a single thread below the top strap but also helps keep it in place.
All these features enable S&W to use this shield, but they are designed into the gun. They're lacking on a DW revolver, and merely jamming one of those shields into the space between the barrel and the top strap won't hold it in place....it will blast out of the frame on the first round and I hope the shooter is wearing glasses!
I hope this adds some info. for your guys working on it. I'd like to see it work on a DW Revolver, but I'm stuck on finding an idea to hold it SAFELY in place.
Thanks for the very detailed photos, DJ. 
The only caveat to S&W adding the blast shield to the model 329PD, is that the frame of that gun is aluminum! I mean seriously, if they didn't come up with the ingenuous blast shield idea, there is no way that gun would have passed testing through a hard/long fire test. The top strap would have melted! 
Still, it's a great idea to use on DW's & the old Rugers.
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