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Frame top strap flame cut
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wdelack
Blacksburg, VA.
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March 18, 2008 - 1:53 pm
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Has anyone ever seen this much flame cut?  This is a model 40/357 Supermag.

DW M40 Flame Cut

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460smdave
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March 18, 2008 - 8:43 pm
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I think my 357SM looks about the same I purchased it used on Gunbroker and when it came I should have sent it back. It had the crap shot out of it.

Dave

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Jody
Salem, Virginia
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March 19, 2008 - 5:20 am
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Is this caused by someone not setting the b/c gap correctly?

 
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wdelack
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March 19, 2008 - 7:03 am
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A wide B/ gab would probably contribute to the problem. One could
hope the shooter would be smart enough to realize that, after
constantly getting hot lead in the face, they should correct the gap.

I have come to understand the greatest cause of flame cutting is
hot loaded rounds.  The 357 SM/Maximum was supposed to have been
developed for silhouette shooters. 
It gave them the power needed to send a heavy 180 – 200 grain bullets
down range at velocities similar to that of a lighter 158 grain
loaded 357 Magnum.  I think what might be happening is people
are loading the Supermags with the 158 grain bullets (or lighter) and
pushing them at very high velocities.

That picture was of a Dan Wesson that was on Gun Broker.  I
was glad to see the seller actually put the picture in the auction
listing.

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wdelack
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March 19, 2008 - 7:06 am
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Here wo go, a quote from this article:

http://www.deportiro.com/english_articles/bl09_english_version.shtml 

"A lot
of confusion exists between the terms SuperMag and Maximum. Ruger’s Blackhawk
was called a Maximum. Dan Wesson called their .357 a SuperMag but the
guns are marked for the .357 Maximum. Remington’s ammunition is labeled
Maximum. In any case, the .357 SuperMag/Maximum was designed to operate
with 180 to 200 grain bullets at Magnum velocities. It was definitely
not designed to be a .357 Swift as many tried to make it. When reloaders
started driving 125 grain bullets at hyper velocities all kinds of problems
arose. Throat and top strap erosion, which always occurs in magnum revolvers,
was accelerated as the lightweight bullets slammed into forcing cones.
Quite often the bullets were mis-shapened as the light jackets, designed
for much lower velocities, made the trip across the barrel/cylinder gap.
Heavy doses of ball powder also caused a sand blast effect on top straps
and forcing cones."

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460smdave
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March 19, 2008 - 10:03 pm
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I was always told and have read that the cutting will usually only go so far and then stop.

I have also read that the gun writers of the day overstated the problem with topstrap cutting and that had some part in the demise of the 357 Maximum.

My 445 has some cutting and I have shot alot of WW296 through the gun in the 20+ years I have owned it.

I used to worry about it on my 445 but like I said it seemed to go so far and then it has not gone any deeper. I have never measured it this is only a visual abservation.

I will try to take picks of both and post them.

Dave

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dant
NE Ohio
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April 1, 2008 - 4:39 pm
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  This is true, as we have found over the years and the many guns we had worked on over this time, the flame cutting would indeed, go just "so far" and we’ve found that it actually spot anneals itself in this location and thats it, same was in the Ruger Blackhawks, but Ruger got all bent out of shape as said above, some "rocket scientists" were trying to shoot for the moon we guess and got carried away, but even then , it went "just so far" ………don’t ask me what this "just so far " measurement is, as we have NO idea, never measured it, all by "eyesight"…….

dant

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wdelack
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April 4, 2008 - 3:53 pm
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This is from an article on metal fatigue and stress fractures, it is an interesting read and can be found here:

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/184271-1.html

Stress Concentration

 


 

 

When a metal part is placed under load, stress is almost never uniformly distributed through the part. Instead, it concentrates in certain areas. Naturally, those areas of stress concentration are where the part is most likely to crack or fracture.

 

 

When a part is subject to bending or torsion loads, almost all of the stress (tension and compression) occurs at the surface of the part. That’s why many airplane parts are hollow rather than solid. A hollow tube is very nearly as strong as a solid rod of similar size, but the hollow tube is much lighter in weight. . The principal disadvantage of a hollow part is that, if stressed beyond its elastic limit, it tends to fail much more suddenly and catastrophically than a solid part.

 

 

The same principle explains why I-beam and C-beam structures (commonly used for wing spars) carry virtually all their load in the top and bottom "caps," and very little in the "web" area that connects the two. It also explains why it’s possible to put "lightening holes" in parts without weakening them significantly

 

 

Stress is also concentrated at — and magnified by — any geometric discontinuities in the part, such as corners, holes, notches, threads, scratches, nicks and pits. Such discontinuities are commonly referred to as "stress risers" and are almost invariably where fatigue cracks begin. (See Figure 6.)

 

 

Think about the last time you struggled to rip open a bag of potato chips or peanuts, for example. The thin plastic or cellophane material of the bag is nearly impossible to tear unless you’re fortunate enough to locate the tiny "open here" nick — or to create such a nick yourself with a pocket knife or your teeth. The nick concentrates the stress enormously, and makes the bag easy to open.

 

 

So it is with metal: A tiny and seemingly innocuous nick, scratch or pit may act as a stress riser that concentrates the surface stress enough to cause the part to crack and ultimately fracture. Simple surface roughness may be enough to weaken a part significantly, which is why highly stressed parts are usually machined or polished to a smooth finish. In time, corrosion pits may mar this smooth surface enough to permit fatigue cracking to begin.

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dant
NE Ohio
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April 6, 2008 - 1:33 pm
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  well there is MORE to it than that, as the firearm was designed to be supported by the frame and the ‘window’ (for the cylinder) has the entire front of the frame to also be considered…if the rest of the metal was NOT there ( in front, around and under, then you would have an "issue" to possible "cracking/breaking/fatigue,etc" or if you use the barrel as a "pry bar" to push upward, against an "immovable object" it would subject the top strap to then same……

   Dan Wessons are ( at least used to be…) built using ‘4140’ chrome -moly steel, expansion and contraction are about "equal" and is in wide use by many , if not all the gun companies, even Ruger , casts their own frames, using an alloy that is the same….so cast or forged, they are ‘strong’ very strong, and as I said above, over the years, with ALL of the firearms, this " flame cutting" was going on, not any real issue, (except by some "rocket" reloaders…….)and is more ‘cosmetic’ and a ‘sign’ that maybe the previous owner was into "rocket science",  yes, a "reloader" or had a buddy who did……Wink

any recoil is absorbed and cushioned by the entire firearm, along with , the amount of pressure used in ones "grips" ( hold….)   clamp it in a ‘vise’ and start pulling the trigger, strange things may happen…….

 not to worry, as there is a gap between the barrel and the cylinder, lots of your ‘pressure’ is being released…..we’ve had some in the shop to repair ( service) that had numerous rounds ‘stuck’ out in the barrel and the Dan Wesson, did NOT "fatigue" or blow up, and only "heard" (never seen) any of the cylinders "fatigue" (blow up)

 

  If I was younger, bored, lots of money, "maybe" I would "try" and see how far or long it would take, BUT why……??

 I see and know guys who still shoot .357 Maximums, all the time and not a problem…………….

dant

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