Register
Log In
Home
October 18, 2017
Offline
Here is a photo of an early DW cylinder showing the removable collar.
Most 15-2 owners have never seen this.
June 5, 2008
Offline
I have a new 715 with a birthday of April IIRC, it has no felt end play when cylinder closed and locked and hard to get out of frame when latch is released, but then I'm 75 and hands aren't what they were 20 years ago.
Now I did run into a problem first time firing the gun with the cylinder locking up, then not locking up. Seems the Winchester cases (old factory stock) after much measuring the gaps on the gun etc, I finally checked the cases and all but a few of the Winchester cases the rim of base were .058 with a few at .060 Good thing I don't have many Winchester cases or ammo left unfired. My reloading was done with mostly Fed and R/P factory ammo I had shot then a a few years ago I bought a bunch of Starline brass. Anyway this revolver is the tightest gun I've ever owned and shoot like a dream with good ammo.
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
Thanks for your post, Waldo Pepper. Variances in the rim thickness of different ammunition manufacturers is why we need to have specific headspace tolerances. You’ve experienced what can happen with a bit too little headspace. That said, the spring loaded detent ball on the DW design should allow for this better than a Colt for example which has no “springiness” whatsoever in its lockup. As long as you’re able to swing out the cylinder without undue resistance I think you’re Ok. Try this: load the cylinder with fired cases, then after closing it see if you can move the cylinder by firmly pressing it rearward. There should be a little movement against the detent ball (a few thousandths); if not, then these new DW’s are much tighter than the originals that I own. Congratulations on your new DW, and enjoy your range time as long as the ammo holds out!!
June 5, 2008
Offline
Mine is noticeably harder to open and close then my old m-22, 722 M15 or 715, M44 or 744 and with just gripping cylinder one handed I can't get any movement backwards. I'll lock it in my special non marring vice Saturday and give it a try that way. This is the hardest closing or opening revolver I've ever owned, bar none. So far I have checked 100 hundred rounds of my hand loaded Winchester cases and all were .054 to .054 inches.
I'm not getting much done shooting as it's been raining here for about 2 weeks and since Friday last week it's rained a little over 9" in the rain gage and stayed in 40's, my arthritis is killing me. However starting tomorrow it's suppose to be sunny and clear with rising temps. Wish me luck.
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
Waldo Pepper, .054 is on the low side for case rim thickness. These cases should cause no drag at all when opening or closing the cylinder before or after firing. Clearly, these newer DW’s are built differently than the older ones with regard to headspace. Try again putting a fired case in the cylinder and closing it lined up with the bore. See what thickness feeler gage you can squeeze in between the case head and the frame, if any. Realistically you should be able to get at least .003 in there which would still be below the suggested minimum headspace for a .357, and if not you’re just going to have to live with a very tight revolver. Good news; it’s a very accurate one! You could try to contact someone at DW to inquire if others are experiencing similar difficulties. Good luck!
June 5, 2008
Offline
I measured the cylinder depth from the cylinder rim today, 1/32 of a inch is all it has. When cases (new unfired or fired) are installed they are above the cylinder rim and they catch the flat edge of rim when you try to pass it over the case. I guess that would to be the cause of my cylinder sticking on occasions due to normal expansion. Anyone know what is the standard for the older guns?
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
Can’t say what the ‘official’ standard for the older guns is, but I’ve just measured both of mine to be .042 from the cylinder rim to the chamber. 1/32” is only .031, so that is a lot of case head (approximately .024 assuming a case head rim thickness of .055) protruding above the cylinder, and I can certainly see why it would be a very tight fit in the frame window.
June 5, 2008
Offline
What ticks me off is all those case I tossed out in the trash because I thought they were bad and before I thought things through. 
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
It seems that this revolver is operating with headspace well below the established minimum. I can’t believe this is intentional as to design, so I can only assume it is a manufacturing flaw. If possible, I would contact someone at DW to consult on what to do next. Good luck.
June 5, 2008
Offline
I talked to Bob today and he says send it back, so they can check it out and fix it I guess.
Also I measured the gap between cylinder and top strap and bottom of the frame, it was .0010" for both top and bottom. My Ruger Wrangler has about 1/4" gap at top of the cylinder, but the barrel to cylinder gap is .005", and timing appears perfect. Go figure. 
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
Very much looking forward to hearing the details of how DW will address the issues you’re having with this revolver, and I hope to learn something from it. Best of luck, and keep us posted.
October 18, 2017
Offline
I realize that shipping in the northeast must be incredibly slow right now, but I would hope that Waldo Pepper has received his new 715 back from DW by now. I'm very curious as to how it's working after the repair. I'm still trying to nail down the differences in the current production revolvers compared to the early ones with regard to the spring loaded detent ball system.
Here's a post from 2014: how much end play in the cyl. is too much on a DW44? the barrel gap is set to .006, with fired case’s in the cyl. I can push it back an additional .013 for a total of .019, is this normal to allow for thermal expansion?
Wow! At least my early (small frame) DW's only have around .007 additional push back on the detent ball. I keep the gap set to .002 on the proudest chamber giving a total gap of 9-10 thousandths during firing. What I'm understanding from reading through this topic is that the newer DW's have much less rearward movement of the cylinder with only a thousandths or two clearance at the breech face. My headspace is .061 with the cylinder held in the forward position by the detent ball, and the ratchet is .007 from the rearward position where it would be upon firing. So, what is the headspace on one of these new DW's?
June 5, 2008
Offline
Well I got the gun back before Christmas and then had to send all the shrouds back due to the inside of the plastic case had partly collapsed and shrouds got together along with barrel tool and every shroud was marred and one was scratched pretty bad I think by front sight of another. I told Keith about it and he said send them back and they would be polished w/o charge. Bob said the other day they were in shipping, so I guess I'll get them back before end of month.
Also the problem was a sticking firing pin, that I had noticed sticking and put oil on it and worked it some, but gun was still hanging up. Bob said he polished it some and got it working just fine. But since the weather was so bad the day I got them back and and continued bad for IIRC 2+ weeks and after a week of waiting I sent them back to DW by Priority mail.
Revolvers
New Model M-715 Pistol Pack
1911's
Bob Tail RZ 10mm - Bob Tail RZ 38 Super by Keith @ DW - DW 38 Super Guardian
October 18, 2017
Offline
Wow; it has been quite awhile since this topic was started, but I do have an update on my early DW's. Most readers are unaware of how the earliest DW's were put together with regard to the cylinder/crane arrangement. The removable cylinder gas ring was certainly an interesting idea, but DW changed it to what we still have today around 1978. The reason? It is a much better system!! Still, there is something that can be done to correct excessive endplay on these early guns besides shims (which in my experience did not work well). I found old stock DW cylinder gas rings at Numrich. I purchased two in the hope that they might be a little longer, and indeed they were! So, I was able to fit them to my DW's, and now have a reasonable endplay tolerance. I had to thread the barrels in a little farther of course, and this proved difficult on the 15-2 (the 15-1 was fine). By turning the barrel nut onto the threads a couple of times to true the threads a bit it did eventually go in far enough. I don't know how many of these parts Numrich still have in stock, but if you're an early DW owner and have more endplay than you would like you might want to try this.
Dans Club
February 24, 2013
Offline
Wow! Great information, thanks for sharing!
October 18, 2017
Offline
Looking back to post 52 of this topic where a .44 Magnum DW owner says he had .013 cylinder travel on his DW, I suspect that DW’s are not immune to frame stretching. My early 15-2 shows evidence of extreme cylinder hammering while my 15-1 shows much less evidence. Sure enough, when I was fitting the new cylinder gas rings, the 15-2 required a much longer cylinder collar length than the 15-1. I think I should limit my 15-2 to .38 Special loads only. I suspect that DW owners have hand loaded rounds to excessive pressures thinking that the guns can handle it, but the reality is that these loads will eventually take their toll.
Supporter
Dans Club
March 25, 2013
Offline
Oh no! My bubble is burst. I wonder how many rounds went down the pipe before that happens.
October 18, 2017
Offline
I think I was in denial about my early DW’s, thinking that was just the way the older guns were set up. Now I have a better understanding of what my guns may have been subjected to by previous owners. I have full confidence that my 15-1 can handle all the magnums I can put through it, but I’m a little leery about my 15-2 as I now believe it has stretched a bit. Who knows how many “hot” magnums it takes to stretch a DW, but I’m sure it’s way more than most other makes.
October 18, 2017
Offline
Just in case you were wondering what evidence of excessive cylinder hammering looks like. This is my 15-2; it looked like this when I purchased it a few years ago and hasn’t changed as I only shoot over the counter .357s in it, and now mostly .38s.
1 Guest(s)
