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July 9, 2009
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Anybody had an issue with the cylinder moving back and forth? By that, I'm not talking about the rotational movement or slack related to the bolt, hand, and star.
Said differently, how do you take out the slack out the cyliunders front/back movement?
As I go to set my barrel/cylinder gap, I can screw barrel in and push the cylinder back about .040 inch. Rotation wise, it locks up fine when the trigger is held back with the hammer down. gap seeting is a real pain with this condition.
Can anybody point me in the right direction?
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Coyote Joe,
When I made my road trip to CZ in Norwich I took my 15-2 along to have it looked at as I had recently purchased it, my first DW to boot, and Keith indicated that there was excessive front to back play in the cylinder. He kept it to do some repairs. Mine would catch the barrel because when I set the gap I was compressing the ball bearing and upon release of the gap tool it would result in no gap. I guess I could have compensated for that but the cylinder was also catching on the frame a bit when I open the cylinder to load/reload. He just emailed me that it was shipping back today so I should have it Tuesday. I dropped it off in late May '09, so it took awhile.
ed
July 9, 2009
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Thanks for the input Jaggman. That give me some food for thought. I'd sure love to know what the factory did to correct this issue. It sounds like our problem is the same.
February 2, 2009
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My model 40 had that problem along with excess end shake, when I sent it to DW; they added a shim between the cylinder and crane along with replacing the hand and firing pin. It has no noticeable front to back movement.
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Coyote Joe said:
Thanks for the input Jaggman. That give me some food for thought. I'd sure love to know what the factory did to correct this issue. It sounds like our problem is the same.
I believe Keith said he was going to replace the crane and shim the cylinder for proper end play. Mine actually got a few marks on the front of the cylinder from hitting the barrel although it did not bind up when shooting. Go figure.
Ed
June 3, 2009
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My model 15 currently has a gap of .002" between back of barrel and face of cylinder without any tension from the ball bearing / spring assembly. ie a gpa through which I can see daylight.
IF I push the cylinder back towards the firing pin, I can open this gap to .010", but the additional .008" rearward movement is against the pressure or the ball bearing spring the whole way.
If I let the cylinder go, it resumes its nomal position and leaves me with a .002" gap between cylinder face and rear of barrel.
I assumed that this is normal for all DW revolvers.
Regards
John
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
August 28, 2008
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.008" is quite a bit of end shake. After a point end shake has a tendency to get progressively worse. At what point that is on a Dan Wesson i don't know. If it were mine I would have it corrected.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Reb:
I don't think he's talking about end shake. To me, end shake is wheh you can wiggle the cylinder back and forth. I've gotten the impression from his posts that he is applying a lot of pressure in order to see how far it will go.
Having said that, it's gonna be the first thing I check when I get home (out of tiwn right now).
-Mike
February 18, 2009
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Hello everyone. This gets a little wordy and may not interest everybody but may be of interest to some:
My recently acquired 744 had about .006" endshake. I understand the definition of endshake to be the front-to-back movement (or play) the cylinder has along its axis when closed within the frame (as opposed to the rotational movement when locked-up).
I saw that for other brands (Ruger, S&W) we can buy shims. For these brands the shims are installed inside the cylinder's bore where it spins on the crane (am I using the correct term ?). I called Power Custom (who sell endshake bearings or shims for other brand revolvers) and spoke with Mr. Ron Power himself, asking if he offers shims for the DWs.
Ron's view on the subject is that any more than .004" endshake iis too much. He said when he sets up a new revolver he shoots for .0005". This sounded very tight to me but I'm no expert and Ron certainly is. Using the linear coefficient of expansion of stainless I found with a Google search yields about .0017" increase in the lenght of a 744 cylinder for a 100 degree F change. I don't know what the temperature delta between the cylinder and frame might be after an extended shooting session. Any thoughts on that?
Ron doesn't offer shims for the Dan Wessons; in his opinion the DW design should be fixed by stretching the "gas ring". Ron had to educate me on that term; it's what extends forward from the front of the cyinder. Some of you have had success using shims here and I'm tempted to try that on a 41mag DW that has almost .005" endshake. Ron let me know that Brownells sells a gas ring stretcher but that it is difficult to use. Here's a link to that tool:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1029/Product/SINGLE_ACTION_GAS_RING_STRETCHER
It's labeled "single action" etc. but the DW has a gas ring like the single actions so he thought it would work. I'm not sure if the mandrel in this kit is 0.375" like my 744 uses. If it isn't, that part could be a piece of 0.375" drill rod.
Ron thought that if a guy had a lathe, that the polished end of a blank took bit in the cross-feed could exert force against the gas ring as the cyinder turned slowly in the chuck. He felt it important to have a snuggly-fitting hardened steel mandrel in the center bore of the cylinder and that this mandrel should be supported by the tailstock center. Lubricant would be used to reduce friction and the gas ring would be "stretched" as the metal is made to flow forward (if that wording makes sense).
Well, I tried this and did acheive a lengthening of my cylinder of .004". I think a lathe of heaver construction would be better than what I have (an old 12" Delta). I believe I used the cross feed about as hard as I dare. I now measure .002" endshake on the 744.
August 28, 2008
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End shake is the front to back movement of the cylinder even against the ball.
July 9, 2009
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Buffalo Bill-
You answered all my questions. now I have something to run with to fix my old 15-2.
Thank you vry much. I'll look into the Brownells tool.
June 3, 2009
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Hi guys
John in Adelaide here - I think from what has been said, that I have excessive front to back movement of the cylinder when closed within the frame - .008" additional to the .002" barrel to cylinder gap means that I have a .010" gap as the projectile leaves the chamber.
At rest, the cylinder is constantly under the tension of the spring / ball bearing - there is no movement UNLESS I force the cylinder back and overcome / override the spring tension.
I the solution to this for me, as simple as installing say a .006" shim in front of the cylinder on the crane shart, thereby moving the cylinder back .006"? That way I would have a contant .002" gap at the back of the cylinder, and a .002" gap between cylinder and barrel. According to my sums, that would result in a .004" gap as the projectile exists the chamber and crosses to the barrel.
Is my reckoning correct? And if so, what measurements would you guys usually run your revolvers - Model 15/2.
Cheers
John
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Hi John,
I had the same problem with my 15-2 and just got it back from CZ in Norwich, NY. They replaced the upper crane leg and machined a bit off the rear of the cylinder where the whatever(technical name for ??) rachets the cylinder every time you cock the hammer. My problem was when I installed the barrel and set the clearance with the gage I would compress the ball/spring and upon removal of the gage the cylinder would hit the barrel. It was a trick to set the clearance and take into account compression factor. Now it is a snap. I believe there is suppose to be some movement when the cylinder is closed and a bit more when it is open, but not enough so the cylinder hit the frame on the latch side when open. Hopefully someone else on the forum well offer their 50 cents if I am confusing the issue.
I know you can't ship your gun to CZ and expect to get it back in a reasonable time, and perhaps you can't at all. Maybe a gunsmith “Down Under” can do the work?
Good luck,
Ed
June 3, 2009
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CRANE LOCK INSTALLED INCORRECTLY
Hi folks, I just spent an hour or two trying to work out how to put a shim into the 15/2 revolver to reduce the .010" gap I had when the cylinder was pushed to the rear, overriding the ball / spring tension.
I was dismayed at the amount of movement forwards and backwards when I push / pulled the crane with the cylinder removed. Couldn't work out how to fix this - I thought the revolver was worn out and that I had wasted my $s.
Fortunately, the crane lock slipped out while I was wriggling the crane, and then IT came to me - I had the machined face of the crane lock pointing to the front of the revolver. If I turned the crane lock around, then the rounded side would face the front of the revolver, pulling the entire crane back towards the rear of the revolver. When I did this, the extra movement or slack in the crane all but disappeared. Felt like a completely different assembly. This also effectively moved the front of the cylinder back a few thousands of an inch.
I then reassembled the 15/2 and am pleased to say, I have a total gap of .005" when I push the cylinder back as hard as I can towards the rear of the revolver. So the current settings are just under .002" (firm fit) barrel to cylinder at rest, .005" total gap when forcing the cylinder to the rear.
JUST BY TURNING THE CRANE LOCK SO THAT THE MACHINED SIDE FACES THE REAR OF THE REVOLVER HAS REMOVED .005" OF FRONT TO BACK MOVEMENT.
This is also when the revolver is cold and hasn't fired a round.
Tomorrow I'll take it to the range and put a few hundred full loads through it to see what happens.
Will let you know.
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Tomorrow I’ll take it to the range and put a few hundred full loads through it to see what happens. A few hundred –wholey Macherel! That’s a full day.
June 3, 2009
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Just made up a home made version of the barrel removal tool so I could set the barrel to cylinder at .002"
Measured full pulled back gap at .006" So I reckon that's within tolerance?
Feels great, can wait to make some noise with it tomorrow.
Cheers
John
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
June 3, 2009
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Shot 280 rounds @ around 110 fps of 158 gr lead.
Gap was set at .002" cold, and started sticking after about 30 rounds in relatively close succession, so I reset gap at .002" after a further 10 rounds. Seemed to go OK so I stopped shooting and let everything cool down. Measured the cylinder to barrel gap when cold, and found it was between .004 and .005".
Worked on squaring all faces, including a spot on the barrel that was rubbing on the cylinder face, and reset cold at .005"
Shot a further hundred or so, and found the gap narrowed to less than .002", BUT FELT NO RESISTANCE AT ANY TIME.
Accuracy was great after I squared faces and reset the gap.
Only down side of the day - lost the cylinder retainng lug off the side plate at some stage and couldnt find it in the dust, and the trigger began failing in double action about 240 rounds - single action continued to be fine. I presume just dirt.
Will try to get a new retaining lug for the cylinder in Australia, otherwise will be on line begging for some advice and help.
Cheers
JH
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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John- I'm planning to buy some little stuff from DW/CZ soon. I'm happy to help out an international shooter, done it before. PM me if you need a hand.
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
June 3, 2009
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thanks Steve, will et you know over the next week or so.
JH
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
August 29, 2009
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John Hunter said:
CRANE LOCK INSTALLED INCORRECTLY
Hi folks, I just spent an hour or two trying to work out how to put a shim into the 15/2 revolver to reduce the .010" gap I had when the cylinder was pushed to the rear, overriding the ball / spring tension.
I was dismayed at the amount of movement forwards and backwards when I push / pulled the crane with the cylinder removed. Couldn't work out how to fix this - I thought the revolver was worn out and that I had wasted my $s.
Fortunately, the crane lock slipped out while I was wriggling the crane, and then IT came to me - I had the machined face of the crane lock pointing to the front of the revolver. If I turned the crane lock around, then the rounded side would face the front of the revolver, pulling the entire crane back towards the rear of the revolver. When I did this, the extra movement or slack in the crane all but disappeared. Felt like a completely different assembly. This also effectively moved the front of the cylinder back a few thousands of an inch.
I then reassembled the 15/2 and am pleased to say, I have a total gap of .005" when I push the cylinder back as hard as I can towards the rear of the revolver. So the current settings are just under .002" (firm fit) barrel to cylinder at rest, .005" total gap when forcing the cylinder to the rear.
JUST BY TURNING THE CRANE LOCK SO THAT THE MACHINED SIDE FACES THE REAR OF THE REVOLVER HAS REMOVED .005" OF FRONT TO BACK MOVEMENT.
This is also when the revolver is cold and hasn't fired a round.
Tomorrow I'll take it to the range and put a few hundred full loads through it to see what happens.
Will let you know.
Any update on this mod?
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