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May 7, 2019
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Hi Folks-
As I mentioned in my welcome thread, I am working on a 7445-VH8S with a burris scope mount and a Nikon 2x20 scope. It came in because the owner noticed the scope walking in the rings when he shot, and he was unable to get relatively accurate repeatable results when sighting in.
On inspection, the firearm is in good condition, however, I noticed the rear ring mount to scope base was loose. I tightened that for the time being and took the upper rings off to see what was up with the scope and rings. I figured I would be sighting in the gun anyway. I also performed a cleaning service on this gun as a matter of routine inspection of muzzle, bore, cylinders, cylinder alignment, timing, headspace, etc. Everything appeared okay.
Sure enough the paste "adhesive" on the bottom ring half had dried and lost its grip. I cleaned the rings and put a very thin film of clear silicone on both halves of the rings and torqued down the rings in sequence to remount the scope.
I then took it out to test fire on a bench rest with Hornady factory 240grain XTP hollow point .44magnum rounds. At 25 yards I was getting a wild grouping of about 5". I figured it should do about a 3" group with a scope. After this session of 20 rounds while working the reticles, I finally took it back to the bench. [ I know, sometimes I get hung on a problem]
I re inspected the mount to vent rib clamps suspecting something may not quite be tight enough and is allowing the scope to walk. I noticed that this gun may have been exposed to some heavy loads or the clamps were loose at one time when fired because there was mushrooming on the back corner of the clamps where they attach to the rib.
I removed the scope/mount assembly and factory zeroed the scope to start from a known baseline.
I fired another 6 rounds with the iron sights to see if I got better grouping, suspecting that the scope may have suffered some damage considering what I found with the mount clamps. I got a better grouping of 6 shots with iron sights, and more consistent placement.
I'm leaning more towards a damaged scope. I reinstalled the scope after repairing the clamps and torqued each screw to the same spec, also using a crisscross pattern. I wanted to verify the scope was damaged if I couldn't sight it in.
I did a cursory work bench boresight to get on paper and adjusted accordingly. I went to the shooting bench and I was no where near the 12x12 paper target at 25 yards. This was surprising so I unloaded the weapon and inspected the muzzle again with a Q-tip to see if there were any burrs or damaged lands. Lands appeared worn but still viable all the way to the end and I had no dragging fibers when I tested for burrs.
I did notice on this barrel there is no 11 degree crown cut into it. Now I am suspecting the barrel or muzzle/crown. I pulled out my laser bore sight tool and, to confirm the scope was okay or not, I set the scope to the laser mark on the target. Fired 6 more shots, same problem. I checked the laser sight again and verified the scope did not move at all under fire.
At this point I am in far too deep for a customer's gun, but I am wanting to resolve this issue or offer the customer a detailed explanation other than "can't do it".
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions in advance.
Gatinger-
May 7, 2019
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Here is a pic of the gat I am working on:
7445-VH8S
And here is a pic at 25 yards of the gun's initial firing with the Hornady 240gr .44mag VTX JHP:
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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Check the barrel to cylinder face gap. Factory recommends .002 on 7445. Also check that the barrel nut is not loose. Don't over tighten, just good and snug.
March 19, 2016
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I shoot the same setup, 2x Burris on a 8VH 7445.
I agree with the guys, check the gap, check the barrel nut, and maybe try some 445 ammo. There is a pretty good jump to the forcing cone. I watched a guy shoot a Redhawk that was a 45 long Colt/ 45 Acp.
It was accurate with the 45 Long Colt but was not that great with the 45 ACP.
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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You need to shoot it using 445 brass. Too many variables shooting 44 magnum...
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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My experience with a 7460. 460 and 45 Win Mag are very accurate but unfortunately, 45 acp is not. It is a shame because 45 acp is a whole bunch cheaper. Is the scope mount D and T or clamp on. Recoil is too great for clamp on.
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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I missed the fact that it was .44 magnum rounds. Definitely not as accurate as .445.
May 7, 2019
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It has the burris clamp on mount. It has seen some recoil issues in the past, i cleaned up the lugs that clamp to the rib and torqued them down. I have some .445 brass coming, commercially loaded, not personal loads. I also found another smith who had the barrel nut tool and we did a thorough inspection with thw barrel off. The rifling is rough for one. He said it appeared to be made that way from the factory more than abused. Throat was in good shape as was the crown[ i question why it doesnt have an 11 degree bevel on it] chambers looked like a lot of 44s have been shot to the point he recommended polishing them very well. Also the face between thw frame and thw barrel shroud was touching in two spots, not fully face to face contact. Lastly, the gap between the cylinder and barrwl was .006 and his tool from wesson said .006 was factory.
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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Hmmm. The gap on a Supermag should be .002, not .006. Use a set of automotive feeler guages. Much easier to use and it has all sizes. The gap between the shroud and frame could be a serious problem for accuracy. It would prevent a tight fit of the nut and could cause the barrel to move.
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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I was sure I read somewhere that the gap for the .445 SM should be .002 and the factory did make a .002 gap gauge. However, I went to my factory instruction manual for the supermag models. On page 13 it specifies .002 for the .375 Maximum and .006 for the .375 SuperMag, the .445 SuperMag and the .414 SuperMag.
Gatinger is correct on the factory gap recommendation.
On page 12 it states:
"Dan Wesson .445 SuperMag revolvers are chambered to fire the .445 SuperMag cartridge only. Although .44 Magnum and .44 Special cartridges can be chambered in .445 SuperMag, Wesson Firearms does not recommend their use in this revolver."
The manual was published by Wesson Firearms Co., Inc. in Palmer, MA
Perhaps this info changed in the move to Norwich???
May 7, 2019
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OKAY - I have the .445 SM rounds now, so will retest as soon as mother nature quits pissing on us here in Illinois.
Thanks Snake-eye for the information. I guess I should have RTFM before starting. I talked to the customer. He's had it since it was brand new, and admitted to some hot loads long ago and he has said he hasn't ever shot .44mag through it. Frankly, and not trying to defer responsibility, he suggested maybe trying .44 mag because of the availability of ammunition. Perhaps the reason DW said no .44mag was because of the "chunkiness" of the rifling? Not sure, but the mfg knows best and that's the bible for that handgun imho. Therefore I will polish out the cylinders to clean up what has been done, and retest.
If accuracy doesn't improve, we talked about a re-barrel. I may be in the market for a NEW barrel, but we shall see.
Oh, and long live my wrists after this. HAHAHA!
Gatinger.
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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August 8, 2016
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Gatinger said
OKAY - I have the .445 SM rounds now, so will retest as soon as mother nature quits pissing on us here in Illinois.Thanks Snake-eye for the information. I guess I should have RTFM before starting. I talked to the customer. He's had it since it was brand new, and admitted to some hot loads long ago and he has said he hasn't ever shot .44mag through it. Frankly, and not trying to defer responsibility, he suggested maybe trying .44 mag because of the availability of ammunition. Perhaps the reason DW said no .44mag was because of the "chunkiness" of the rifling? Not sure, but the mfg knows best and that's the bible for that handgun imho. Therefore I will polish out the cylinders to clean up what has been done, and retest.
If accuracy doesn't improve, we talked about a re-barrel. I may be in the market for a NEW barrel, but we shall see.Oh, and long live my wrists after this. HAHAHA!
Gatinger.
If you need a new barrel, that really shouldn't be a problem. Just reach out to Bob or Shawn at DW. Shawn@cz-usa.com, Bob@cz-usa.com
Curious to see how the 445 ammo shoots.
May 7, 2019
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Plan on shooting it this weekend. I admit some flinching is possible as I've kinda mentally shocked myself with the round. .44 magnum is the strongest pistol I've ever shot. I am also going to reach out to the fellas mentioned above about a new barrel. Customer noted back to me and said it may become a safe queen til he can find a barrel.
He also stated he's in the market for an Alaskan guide in .445. I know I watched a recent review from Hickok 45 on a .45-70 revolver that was pretty nice. I may recheck that and mention it to him as well.
Will post results as soon as I get over psyching myself out over the power of the .445. HAHAHA!
P.S. I reached out to Bob and Shaun at CZ-USA. Will see what they say as well. Thanks 10^10
May 7, 2019
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Bob replied that barrels are available for $105 plus tax and shipping. He also noted as was stated above the cylinder gap should be 0.002. I asked if this was a post production change since the manual stated .006 for the .445. Will be interesting to see his response. He also stated that .44mags are safe to shoot in the gun, but make sure the cylinders are cleaned thoroughly afterwards.
Thought I'd share that.
Gatinger.
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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Gatinger said
He also stated he's in the market for an Alaskan guide in .445.
This is what he's looking for:
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
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