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SCORPIO
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May 21, 2012 - 6:42 pm
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Let me preface my request with a little background.  Sat. night about 1:00Am I get a call from my father. We all know that when the phone rings at late hours its not usually good news.  He said the dog barking woke him and he saw that a strange car had backed into the driveway down by the farm buildings and two men got out and dissappeared into the darkness.  He said he didn't want to wake me and but after about ten minutes he figured they were up to no good.   I told him I'd be right up as I only live about a quarter mile from him.  I grabbed my pants and shoes, my DW 357 and my Sig P250 45 and jumped in the truck.   I get to his house and see my dad out in his PJs shouldering his double barrel 12ga.  He said right after he hung up with me he saw the guys moving quickly to the car.  He went out with the shotgun and asked them what the hell they were doing, they didn't answer and kept coming so he issued a HALT OR I'LL SHOOT warning in his best Korean War vet tone.  They then jumped into the car and peeled out of the driveway. He held a bead on them as they left in case they swerved towards him.  He said he wanted to shoot the radiator, but didn't know if they were armed and he would have only had one round left so he let them go, but got a plate number. 

Now to my request.  Seeing as how Fathers Day is coming, I'd like to get dad somethig with more capacity. He likes shotguns so I was thinking about an assult shotgun in 12 ga.  Can anybody give me some recommendations on a good, simple, reliable gun. 

I commend him for his restraint, if I had issued a waring to halt and then the creeps jumped into a car, I'd have thought they were going to run me down.  I think I would have take out the grill and some tires at the least. 

 

A thorough examination of the property didn't show any theft or vandalism, but I may have scared them off when I turned on my outside lights and started my truck, as you can see my house from where they were.  

We are all a bit unnerved by this, not knowing what or where they were planning on going or doing.  My wife asked me to keep another gun at the ready just in case they come back.

Cops haven't said if the plate did them any good.

So for now my CCW is my 445SM with a 9mm as a backup.  I figure a 445 will at least knock out a radiator, and maybe an engine block as well.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

My father

If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.

My grandfather

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snake-eye
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May 21, 2012 - 6:56 pm
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I would check out the new Kel Tec KSG bullpup type shotgun. You can get up to 13 rounds of 3 inch shells and more with 2.75. It's pump action with downward ejection.

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Steve
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May 21, 2012 - 7:25 pm
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I think the KelTec is very cool, interesting, but pricey and maybe a little hard to manage. I don't (yet) own a shotgun, but a pretty smart shooter that I trust says that you just can't go wrong with a Remington 870, maybe like this:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-synthetic-7-round.aspx

Depending on the circumstances, maybe throw in a DA/SA 9mm. The last CDNN catalog I got had S&W 5906's for $299. 15 round, stainless, DA/SA, safety de-cocker. Easy to get holsters and mags, and he can take it shooting with you.

Then the 12 ga double can become the right gun for last ditch, final fallback, “bedroom in the dark” defense.

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

George Carlin

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Rod Slinger
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May 21, 2012 - 7:34 pm
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Kel Tec is a very good choice as would be a Ruger Mini 14 and a 30 round mag. 

 

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/Mini14.jpgImage Enlarger

   R S

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lonwolf93
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May 21, 2012 - 9:15 pm
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+1 on the Remington 870, a sturdy reliable pump shotgun. You also might want to consider a Mossberg 500, another sturdy reliable pump, not quite as smooth, but the safety is on the top of the tang, probably very similar to the double barrel your dad is already used to.

   Both can often be found used in solid condition too if you look around at gun shops or shows.

   I think if you fire off that .445 at night it will most likely scare away every scumbag in the county.

-Lonwolf

  

"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"

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Charger Fan
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May 22, 2012 - 8:59 am
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Man, that's an unnerving scenario, your dad definitely needs more than two shots in a situation like this. I hope the cops can do something with the plate number.

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Jody
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May 22, 2012 - 10:13 am
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They were certainly up to no good!  As Steve pointed out the 870 is tried and true… I'm no up on current assault type shotguns but I'm sure there are some other good choices out there.

 
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Gary J
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May 22, 2012 - 10:55 am
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That is an interesting event. Its unfortunate that in many states you become the felon when you shoot someone outside your house. Its hard to prove that they exerted deadly force. Lawyers alway say, “You shouldn’t go outside the house to become a target. Just call the police and let them handle it.” If your dad had shot their radiator out and they stopped he would have been out numbered. And with crooks today there is no telling how much fire power they have. It easy to hide in the cloak of darkness and get ambushed by those guys. I was raised in the old school too. You can’t do that stuff any more.

If you shoot someone outside your house because there not suppose to be there and are up to no good. You will be in serious trouble with the law. I read of a similar case where a man did that and he went to prison for it. It's not fair at all for the law abiding citizens. The criminals get the full protection under the law. 

If I was going to go outside. I would be concealed in darkness and be in a sniper position with my AR-15 or Mini-14.  And hopefully not laying on an ant bed.

What I would do is buy some surveillance cameras. Walmart has them for about 39.00 a piece. I have two on my mother's front and back porch. All she has to do is flip a channel on the TV and she can see her porches and part of the yard as well. Another good thing to have too is a deer camera with infra-red. It doesn't flash but takes pics of what ever moves. They have batteries and you can put them on a tree etc.  Good luck on helping pop out. He really needs to be careful his eyes probably aren't what they use to be or his reflexes. 

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95XL883
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May 22, 2012 - 2:17 pm
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+1 on what Gary said.  Trespassing at that hour in particular almost certainly means they were up to no good.  From what you've written, they were close but not quite at the point of threatening your dad's life.  At least they are gone now.  Some motion sensitive lights or alarms would be a good thing to have.

 

I keep thinking of getting a shotgun but want something more versatile than a dedicated home defense gun.  Knowing that 12 gauges kick and that affects aim and the ability to get off a second shot, I'm leaning towards a 20 gauge.  Masaad Ayoob speaks very highly of the 20 gauge.  http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Sounds like it has plenty of power and a lot of versatility.  He recommends a Remington 1100 and especially the Benelli Ultra Light.

 

HTH.

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May 22, 2012 - 3:28 pm
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In PA we have the Castle Doctrine extended to where ever we are. under the new statue, no matter where you are, if you are threatened or you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to protect yourself with deadly force. 

That said, I hope to never be in such a situation. 

Even if the creeps had no firearms on them, as soon as they got into the car they could have run my dad down, thus making the car a deadly weapon.  I KNOW he couldn't dodge a car trying to run him down.  In that case, it could be possible that the Castle Doctrine would apply. 

I feel he did the right thing by not firing, but he was certainly in a dangerous situation.

We have had a long talk about the incident, and I told him if it happens again, FIRST call the cops, then call me and sit tight until I get there.

 

Talked to a neighbor a few miles from here and he had a similar incident at 2AM Sat. but the people were in a pickup truck.  His son in law chased them up a long grade into a field on a hillside at which his son in laws' car lost traction and they got away.  So it seems that there is some kind of ring of thieves proweling our area.  We have taken precautions and tried to secure everything as much as possible, but you know what they say, locks are for honest thieves. 

My wife now wants her CCW, so that is next on the list.

Dad said he'd like a 357mag so he'd have some extra firepower.  I just happen to know of a good reliable 357laugh.

Time will tell what comes out of this incident. Thanks for the recommendations.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

My father

If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.

My grandfather

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DakotaJack
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May 22, 2012 - 4:19 pm
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Down in FL here we have the same legislation  – we call it the Stand Your Ground Law and it's raising a whole lotta publicity since the recent Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman case.  Hopefully no one will ever be put in the situation where you have to invoke your right to this legislation, but if you do, you've gotta be darn sure your life is threatened to the extent that you have to use deadly force to defend yourself.  Otherwise you'll land in the hotseat trying to keep yourself out of jail with a huge defense bill to go with it. 

Anyway, if you are partial to shotguns, I always liked Remington shotguns and the Versa Max semi auto would fit the bill real nice.

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May 22, 2012 - 4:44 pm
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This is going off topic, but as much as I love .357 Mag, for most people that do not shoot and practice regularly, a high capacity 9 mm DA/SA is almost certainly the the best handgun option. Pick it up, pull the trigger, and keep doing for at least a dozen times.

BTW- Stand Your Ground is almost certainly going to go away-too much negative publicity and liberal media is in the mix now. The Castle Doctrine will (hopefully) survive, and that means that if you are threatened in your home, you may respond as aggressively as needed.

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

George Carlin

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May 22, 2012 - 5:24 pm
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Well I guess I will throw in my simplistic version.

If you can avoid a fight, avoid it. If you can't avoid the fight win it!!!    It is far better to be judged by 12 men than carried by 6.  

As for the weapon of choice for the non “pistolero”  A pump 20 gauge is perfect IMO.  If the shuck of the slide doesen't send them a running a load of #4s in the face will. Of course the the rest of the tube will be full of Buck shot. The 4s are for the indoor challenge.

I am sure everybody has their own idea of the best way, and obviously we can never predict when where or how the threat will arise.  

Pray we never have to take the test.

Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.

                                                                                                                             

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DakotaJack
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June 1, 2012 - 8:19 pm
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Going back to your original post which mentioned that you were looking for an assault shotgun in 12 ga., this one came across in a flyer today and I never really noticed it before.  Looks interesting – I may pick one up only because there's nothing else like it in the market and as the article states, they may not be around very long.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ar-15-style-shotgun-raac-akdal-mka-1919/

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Dave_Ks
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June 2, 2012 - 5:25 am
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Glad all are safe!  My self I have within easy reach the 870 w/ pistol grip full stock and 20″ barrel, 7 shot cap I think. My grab and check is a Glock 30 and P95 ruger, the ole Dan is near most of the time.  Put up more lighting and even fences, cameras where you can. 

 

If they get to close shame on them. 

 

“Don't fight an old man, cause if he is to old he will just kill you!” unknown author 

DSCN1339.jpg

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June 2, 2012 - 10:14 am
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harly said:

Going back to your original post which mentioned that you were looking for an assault shotgun in 12 ga., this one came across in a flyer today and I never really noticed it before.  Looks interesting – I may pick one up only because there's nothing else like it in the market and as the article states, they may not be around very long.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ar-15-style-shotgun-raac-akdal-mka-1919/

That thing is really cool! It really adds a new twist to that whole “black rifle” thing.cool Thanks for the link.

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gsquare
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June 2, 2012 - 1:35 pm
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My dad drives truck full time so a few years back I got him hooked up with a handgun for protection.  We thought it was a good idea, but since we haven’t gone out shooting as much as we’d hoped, he hasn’t really gotten intuitive with the weapon yet.  Understandably, he and I were worried about his effectiveness should an unfortunate situation arise.  So, I recently picked him up a Mossberg 500A with a pistol grip. Short enough to maneuver inside the truck if needed and for him it’s about as intuitive a weapon as you can get.  He loves blasting away milk jugs with bird shot, so consequently, we go out more often because it’s more fun for him than trying to “learn to be a pistol expert”. He is shooting more and really getting familiar and comfortable with operating the weapon which can only help him if called upon to use it. Your situation might be different as your dad has more experience with firearms, but that’s what worked for us.

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September 9, 2021 - 2:33 pm
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shaneswatson said
Is it illegal in the United States to live in a storage unit?

People are unable to sleep in storage containers because they are not designed for this use. Furthermore, because storage facilities are not built in the same way as our homes, they can be unsafe. Most capacity units require you to sign a contract indicating that you would only use the unit for capacity purposes, as well as a legally binding definition of capacity. Why is it a cause for concern that living in a storage container is prohibited in California? House rents in California are rising, as you may be aware, and many individuals are unable to afford them. As a result, they’re looking for alternative accommodation, and storage units are one choice.

  

laughing

See you …

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Scout728
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September 12, 2021 - 12:43 pm
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The Mossberg 590 has a flex system that has many interchangeable stocks.    I bought two 590 pistol grips.    I like the hand strap on the fore stock.   The other will get Hunter parts swap.   ***NOTE: with pistol grip, your Dad’s wrist my hurt by third shot.    (Mossberg has hybrid stocks as well)   https://www.mossberg.com/category/flex-system/

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photohause
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September 16, 2021 - 11:32 am
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My two cents – considering his experience & age – stick with a pump shotgun….even if it’s a 20 ga. Nothing to jam, he’s used to shouldering a long gun, and 7-8 rounds is good.

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