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May 12, 2009
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Beginning about 1963 and continuing through 1968, Sears which was High Stadnard's largest customer ( of private labeled pistols, revolvers, rim fire rifles, centerfire rifles and shotguns) had phased out all but one of the guns made by High Standard. Sears business represented up to 65% of all firearms sales by High Standard.
I don't know when Dan Wesson began production but if it was after 1968, High Stadnard would certainly have had manufacturing capacity. However, the machinery High Standard was using was not the latest most efficient types. The older machinery would have required a a lot of fixtures and jigs for their type machinery. Plus in 1967 High Standard had sold out to the Leisure Group which promptly let go a lot of the experienced design and tooling engineers and shop personnel. High Standard might have welcomed this kind of work but they might not have been well equiped to take on a project like that . The only new products during that time were the revolvers which changed from a die-cast aluminum frame to a steel frame with little if any change to the other revolver parts.
It would be great if whoever said that High Standard made the early Dan Wessons had cited his/her sources.
Unfortunately a lot of the factory memos I have are from before sometime in 1968 when the person I got them from was let go after 28 years so there is nothing in the records he had saved that would cover the time when High Standard supposedly made the Dan Wesson revolvers.
I will try to contact a former engineer who had worked at High Standard ( twice), Colt Ruger and later became the head of design at Smith & Wesson. He returned to High Standard in 1972 or 1973 when Mitchell needed engineers after leaving Colt to become president of High Standard. Perhaps he knows part of the story. He is the principal designer of the Crusader but was let go before it finally reached production years later.
December 17, 2008
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Jody said:
Great information Guys…
Dusty I actually submitted a request under the Freedom of Information Act but never received a response.
I would be nice if we could get some of those early records!
The idea of being able to access (purchase?) the old records on microfilm is what I would like to pursue! I'll make a few more calls and see what I can find out.
Your FOI request may just be a matter of time. I think they have to respond to those.
SteveCT - any source or detail on that Hi Std / CT manufacture of DW's?
May 12, 2009
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Perhaps this is worthy of consideration. If High Standard had made the frame of the early Dan Wesson guns, then when they transferred the frames to Dan Wesson, there would be a serial number entry recording such a transaction in the serial number log and there is none. If they had made complete guns for Dan Wesson or drop shipped complete guns for Dan Wesson there would be a records in the serial number log and there is none.
I am satisfied in my mind that High Standard did not ship frames to Dan Wesson or completed guns for Dan Wesson.
This is based on finding only the Sentinel MK II and MK III Dan Wesson guns in the High Standard factory records. I am not sure what kind of a persuasive argument might be that would my mind on this.
Pursuing copies of the factory records is a good idea. When I got my copy they were friendly and helpful but 10 years later when I wanted another copy they were bureaucracy at its best and I was not successful.
December 17, 2008
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Gents,
Here is some extra info that proves nothing but is an interesting reference point for the "did Hi Std. Manufacture the first Dan Wesson's" and the "when did DW start manufacturing in Monson" question:
I recently bought a Dan Wesson Model 12 Pistol Pac, Serial #68.
-->Being the 68th serialed revolver, I think it is safe to say that it was manufactured no later than 1970 and it is concievable that it was in the machine shop as early as late 1969.
Under the foam in the pac was a 8x10 B&W Glossy of Dan Wesson watching a machinist work in what appears to be the first Monson gun factory (the old school). It could also be the DB Wesson Tool & Die Company machine shop as well - but my guess is that it's Monson and was a PR piece (in support of the "new factory") because it was professionally shot by "Edward Nadolksi Photographers, Thorndike, Mass" & it is hand numbered: #25.
If (key word "If") my assumptions are correct, this would mean the first guns were being built in Monson - which would support John's research that shows no record of HS guns going to DW - although it's certainly not definitive.
December 17, 2008
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John Stimson said:
Pursuing copies of the factory records is a good idea. When I got my copy they were friendly and helpful but 10 years later when I wanted another copy they were bureaucracy at its best and I was not successful.
That would explain my experience precisely. I called both Maryland and Texas BATF and, well, let's just say I was not overwhelmed with the level of service...
May 12, 2009
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BATFE records are at their West Virginia records center.
I don't know the history so I don't know how many Dan Wesson companies there were. There might be a different set of serial number records for each different company. If it was just a name change during ongoing operations the records would probably be in just one set under one name. If the company never realy closed for very long between entities then perhaps the records are not with ATF since the records only go to ATF when a company closes or at least that is how it worked for High Standard - tat least four different companies at four different locations but only one set of records fro High Stadnard in Connecticut. High Standard Houston is a completely different deal.
I would suggest that you write a letter to your Senator in Washington DC and ask his advice and help in getting copies of the records.
December 17, 2008
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Great suggestion.
I write him frequently, so it's a "known path"...
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I can tell you that the information for the DWCA article came from about 20 different sources. The specific reference to High Standard came from another "internet article" with no real substantiation. Given John's expertise in this area, I think the more valid info on this comes from him, and I am going to edit that DWCA article to remove the High Standard reference.
As we learn more about the DW's, we can assemble more factual info. The learning process is just that, a process.
John, thanks for the help 
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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January 24, 2009
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Good idea, Steve. Being able to fine-tune the article with the most up to date & accurate info, will be better as a whole in the end.
Good luck with the Senator route Dusty, I hope he will be able to open the appropriate doors & we'll end up with some well deserved info.
December 17, 2008
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I hope so too! I'll post any progress.
SteveCT - Figuring out what is fact 40 years later with no records is definately going to be a "process"! Should be half the fun...
April 6, 2009
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This is such a great Forum! Everyone here is always willing to give and work together, without any negativity and upset found on other forums. Great group of guys here!
Glad to be able to visit, it always seems to be a learning experience
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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high standards- I used to hang out on a bunch of Forums, dropped about half of them, now I have three or four others I will hit once a week or so, but they are all just the same old thing, kind of boring.
I guess that "You wanna go where everybody knows your name"
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
May 12, 2009
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Here is the reply I received from the High Standard engineer that I know.
"The Dan Wesson revolvers were never made at High Standard. Everything was done at their Monson, MA plant and we simply marketed them. High Std did the improved styling (more conventional) that made them more acceptable than their original appearance.
December 17, 2008
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Hey John - outstanding source information.
Dan Wesson is an engaging American business story. They (Dan and Karl) had an idea and went for it! Produced a unique and (usually) very high quality product, evolved it and expanded the product lines - and perservered for a couple decades against the odds - with bankruptcy knocking at the door frequently!!
Just a little rambling there, but it's a great story...
October 11, 2009
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Charger Fan said:
Even AutoMag, huh? Interesting.
Can he give us a definite time span that they were involved with DW? It sounds to me then, that DW made the guns for HS, then HS probably roll marked them with their name & shipped them.
There's an article somewhere that mentioned HS as having made the sights for DW during that time period. I wonder if that can be verified?
I have seen a couple of the High Standard/Dan Wesson 357 revolvers. They were Dan Wesson's, except for the permanent barrel nut, the High Standard roll markings, and the grips. You can also check on the Mitchell Arms revolvers. Some of them were Dan Wesson's also. I believe that Mitchell Arms is just High Standard renamed. 
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January 24, 2009
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Dantanna58 said:
I have seen a couple of the High Standard/Dan Wesson 357 revolvers. They were Dan Wesson's, except for the permanent barrel nut, the High Standard roll markings, and the grips. You can also check on the Mitchell Arms revolvers. Some of them were Dan Wesson's also. I believe that Mitchell Arms is just High Standard renamed.
You have actually seen some Sentinel MK II & III revolvers with a non-removable barrel nut? So far I've only seen removable nuts on these, I'd love to see one with a fixed barrel.
October 11, 2009
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Charger Fan said:
Dantanna58 said:
I have seen a couple of the High Standard/Dan Wesson 357 revolvers. They were Dan Wesson's, except for the permanent barrel nut, the High Standard roll markings, and the grips. You can also check on the Mitchell Arms revolvers. Some of them were Dan Wesson's also. I believe that Mitchell Arms is just High Standard renamed.
You have actually seen some Sentinel MK II & III revolvers with a non-removable barrel nut? So far I've only seen removable nuts on these, I'd love to see one with a fixed barrel.
Yes I saw one in a "Pawn Shop" in 1989, and another at a gun show in in 1996.
In the mid 90's Dan Wesson cataloged "fixed barrel" guns. plus a fixed barrel 5 shot snubby. They also made in the early days a very rare to come by nickle plated revolver.
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January 24, 2009
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Dantanna58 said:
Yes I saw one in a "Pawn Shop" in 1989, and another at a gun show in in 1996.
In the mid 90's Dan Wesson cataloged "fixed barrel" guns. plus a fixed barrel 5 shot snubby. They also made in the early days a very rare to come by nickle plated revolver.
Thanks then, I'll have to keep my eyes open for some fixed barrel Sentinels.
I agree with you on the 90's FB guns, I've got a pair. I've also got a 5-shot snubby "Lil' Dan" & it's barrel is removeable. I've seen two of the early nickle guns so far, but they've been in rough shape.
Stop by the Intro section at the top of the forum & tell about yourself & your guns. I like the screen name.
May 12, 2009
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I have found no reference in the High Standard material I have that suggests that there were any fixed barrel Sentinel MK II or MK III . Typically High Standard took out a different catalog number for each variation being sold and I find none for a fixed barrel.
I have found an old High Standard flyer that suggests that they were going to offer extra barrels so that one could interchange the barrels like the Dan Wessons but other than this one flyer, I find nothing to confirm that they did that. A set would have had a separate catalog number and there is none. There is also no reference to sets or spare barrels in the price lists.
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