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Hand cycle a 10mm 1911
October 4, 2018
2:15 pm
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champe
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I just bought a DW PM7-10 and am getting jams when I try to eject a round with the magazine in.

So I measured my handloads as well as some factory (S&B) rounds and they measure 1 1/4 inches long.  The ejection port is only 1 1/8 long so no wonder.

I generally like to function test a sample of handloads by hand cycling all the way through.  I do this with all guns and it works just fine with my EAA Hunter in 10mm.  

Is this normal ?  Do I just have to learn to unload through the mag well ?

Tried calling DW/CZ because I heard they have good customer service. I got a phone run-around instead.

October 4, 2018
4:31 pm
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champe
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Had this issue with another auto that had ammo loaded a little long.  Shot fine, since it ejects without the bullet.  So I went ahead and shot the Pointman 10mm using 2 different handloads and some factory ammo.  Shot fine with all of them.

Still think it’s weird that I have to unload live rounds from the chamber through the mag well. Can anyone with a 10mm 5 inch Dan Wesson confirm this ? 

October 5, 2018
8:12 am
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Stinger
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champe said
Is this normal ?  

No, this is not normal operation. I suggest you re-test, using factory target ammunition and make sure you have followed the specific break-in instructions very carefully. Automatics are extremely sensitive to cartridges that have the OAL out of spec, either short or long.

If you called CZ, you wasted your time. You should call the Dan Wesson factory in Norwich.

October 5, 2018
11:48 am
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champe
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I did call CZ.  They had a Dan Wesson choice on their call in  menu but it did not work.  I guess you are right to suggest calling DW in Norwich.

When reloading I pay attention to OAL.  For 10mm the spec is usually 1.250 and sometimes 1.245. My factory ammo is 1.250.

My slide on the PM7-10 is laser etched as such.  The ejection port is only 1.25 long where shells usually come out.  At the top the ejection port is slightly longer than a round but not wide enough to clear width-wise at the base.  You can get a loaded round through the ejection port only by tipping it  so it’s apparent length is shorter.

I am thinking this is a design feature necessary to accomodate the 10mm round. It should be the same on other DW 1911 10mm guns.

Also, this is a used gun I recently bought, no box or manual.  It has seen some use.  It is not my first 1911, but it is my first Dan Wesson.

Thanks for the reply 

October 5, 2018
12:24 pm
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Stinger
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champe said
When reloading I pay attention to OAL.  For 10mm the spec is usually 1.250 and sometimes 1.245. My factory ammo is 1.250.

The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI) maximum OAL limit for the 10mm Auto is set at 1.250

When you say it will not eject an unfired cartridge with the magazine in, was that an empty mag or with another round in it ?

October 5, 2018
3:12 pm
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champe
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So I measured a 1911 in .45 and found it had the same length dimension. Maybe a true 1911 has to be to that spec.  

Just measured the ejection port on an EAA Witness Hunter in 10mm and found it to be also about the same length as on the DW Pointman.  The EAA manages to eject everything just fine when hand cycled or live fired.  So it is possible to wiggle a full round out even if the ejection port is shorter than the round is long.

To answer the question above, this gun jams hard with the magazine full or empty.  Mostly it was tried with only one round in the gun.  It would chamber fine but jam on the way  out.

October 5, 2018
6:09 pm
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rwsem
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Just finished checking my PM 7-10; no issues manually working the slide to eject a live round. I ejected a magazine full of Armscor…  maybe you need to be more forceful?  My technique: Left hand over the top, using the front or rear serrations, grasping between the heel of the palm and fingers.

Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

October 6, 2018
7:38 am
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champe
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Thanks Sowela – that is what I wanted to know.  My gun apparently has a little defect.  I shot it some more anyway and it functions fine in normal use.

But unloading through hand cycling is out for now.  Tried the quick and firm pull back on the slide – jammed harder.

I am now thinking it is an ejector issue. Nothing obvious found on a clean/oil/inspection.  I am hesitating to call DW since I found out they have a 5 year warranty for original owners.  They will probably want to have me send it in and charge a lot.  I was sort of under the false impression that they had a lifetime warranty. Oh well – I have a good and reasonably priced gunsmith close by.  I would rather give him the business if it comes to that.  Maybe talk to him first  – see if he has a clue.  I know he knows 1911s but the 10mm version is a little special.

Tried some .40 cal. since it looks  like the 10mm is too long for the gun.  That worked really well. Shot reliably and accurately as well as hand cycled perfectly.  I know it may strain the extractor – but it seems to me like shooting 45ACP in a Rowland 460, which is supposed to be ok.

October 6, 2018
11:18 am
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champe
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May or may not be related – this gun has an aftermarket Metalform magazine.  Looks ok, but checking around I find it is the cheapest around with many competitors costing close to double.  With other 1911s I tend to stay with the best names like Wilson and McCormick.  Is the stock mag for the DW Pointman an Ed Brown ?  Are there aftermarket mags that work particularly well in DW guns ?

October 7, 2018
6:35 am
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rwsem
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I have a short ton of Metalform (OEM) magazines and haven’t had any issues with them.  I also have several other brands but basically, for me, a magazine either functions or it doesn’t.  No reason to pay extra for an item that hits the ground a lot….Here’s some DIY reading material on tuning. Could be an ejector or extractor issue- easily fixed.

A too long ejector can cause a problem with live rounds by hitting the case before the edge of the slide has passed over the hood, push the slide back slowly and observe if the ejector is beginning to show before the slide has cleared the hood. It should appear at that position if extended, right as the hood becomes even or just before with the ejection port, if it shows too early, then (lengthening the port or) shortening the ejector will allow live ejection. Before lengthening the port, I’d fiddle with extractor tension….

Regards, Ron

Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

October 7, 2018
7:32 am
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champe
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Glad to hear a good report about Metalform mags.  I have no experience with them, but they do look fine.  If they are OEM to Dan Wesson then I am even more impressed and will get another as soon as I get this problem fixed.

Doing some research on ejection issues I see that weak extractor tension can cause this problem under live fire.  Perhaps I just have a mild case of weak extractor tension.  I do believe you are pointing me in the right direction Ron. Thanks.

October 7, 2018
8:44 am
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champe
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I read the link provided above and learned a bit about the ejection cycle.  i tried the extractor tension test by putting a case under the extractor with the slide removed.  According to the article it should stay there and “withstand a vigorous shake”.  Ha ha.  On mine the case falls right out.  No shake needed.

So I figured I might be doing it wrong.  Tried an older Colt 1911 the same way and the case was held sort of lightly, but at least held.  That gun functions fine.  I have more 1911s I could test but I think it is very likely a weak extractor at this point.

October 7, 2018
9:17 am
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champe
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Set about adjusting extractor tension.  First verified i was doing the test right by watching a youtube video.  I was doing it right. So out came the extractor.  Had a good look with the loupe.  Turns out the extractor hook is peened bad from the inside, with a corner severely rounded and beaten up.  It has a lot of grind marks on it too, apparently from hand fitting. Time for a new one.  We need a little more than an adjustment.

October 8, 2018
5:57 am
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rwsem
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Looks like you’re moving in the right direction. Let us know how things turn out when you get the new extractor fitted.

Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

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