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(Pork chop) Barrel Shrouds and sights, Keeping them straight ( not alignment
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Charger Fan
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January 1, 2016 - 12:22 pm
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2) High Standard Mark 3 = DW 15-1? I add the question mark because I do not seem to see photos or reference to a DW 15-1 This is the target model with readily adjustable ( Via screw adjustment ) rear sight. Front sight is again pinned 90 degrees to the bore and as far a removal or placement the same conditions apply as to the service model front sights. These front sights are taller to match the increased height of the  adjustable rear sight.

Yes, the Mark 3 is basically a DW 15-1. That part can be confusing because DW didn’t really label the 15-1 as “15-1” on the box labels, or catalogs. It was more of an internal mention within the company, as the design changes progressed. I may have been one of the first to begin calling it a 15-1 years ago, but Seth Wesson came along about a year ago and confirmed it as a 15-1 model.

The model 15 has a taller, more boxy rear sight that was used on the W12 model. Because the rear sight sits up high, the pinned front sight is also tall. The top strap on the frame is also shaped like a W12… 

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The model 15-1 (and Mark 3) uses a smaller (and lower) rear sight, along with a shorter front sight. The shorter front sight matches the lower height of the rear sight. The top strap is also trimmed down, to produce a more sleek looking gun…

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To complicate things somewhere along the line early on there was a rear sight on these models that were “drift” adjustable. Another animal entirely. Another apparent variation is that the rear sight on the HS seems to be of a somewhat different design than the DW. It appears that the sight block is much shorter on the HS and it might actually sit  slightly lower. {could be a complication later on when we talk about what will work for replacement shrouds and sights )

As with the model 15 & 15-1, there was also a model 14 & 14-1. The model 14 has a drift style rear sight, meaning you can adjust for windage by tapping the sight left or right. I am showing a pair of snubbies here, because the top rib of the shroud is easier to discern the changes in height from front to rear, than it is with longer shrouds. So, looking at this model 14, notice the drift rear sight, the taller top strap, the top rib on the shroud & how that top rib climbs quickly as you near the front sight.

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Now on this 14-1 (same as Mark 2), notice how the top strap is lower & more sleek, then looking at the shroud, the top rib makes only a gradual rise as it nears the front sight. This shroud requires the shortest of the front sights.

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Same gun, just the other side…

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3) With new style barrel shrouds ( Non Pork chop ) on the 14-2’s that I have seen it looks like the front sight is similar to the earlier Pork chop 14-1 sights in that it is pinned 90 degrees to the bore. It does NOT have the Allen set screw in the muzzle end that runs parallel to the bore. Only 15-2’s have this so called replaceable front  sight. These are sights are are available from EWK for making adjustments in POA/POI . Particularly if using one on a model 14.

Correct, the front sight on the 14-2’s is the same as the 14-1. All the model 14’s (14, 14-1, 14-2) had pinned front sights. The interchangeable front sights began on the 15-2 model, no 14’s that I know of ever had the interchangeable front sight…and no Porkchops of any model ever had this feature.

My Mark 3 ( target model ) Has the short or different from DW rear sight I mentioned above. I have a DW pork chop 4 inch shroud. ( 3.75” or does that apply only to HS shrouds? ) It has what is pretty certainly a front sight for the target model. It is noticeably taller than the service model front sight.
So I am wondering how this DW shroud/front sight will work out on my HS Mark3. If anything it might be too tall and could be filed down. However, I am one who really frowns upon taking a possibly difficult part to find and rendering it to a state where it cannot be returned to original.

It sounds as though your 4″ shroud is probably from a target model. However, if the sight on that is noticeably taller than the one currently on your Mark 3, that shroud is probably from a model 15. If it’s close to what is currently on your gun, then it’s probably from a 15-1. You could trim the sight yourself, or simply buy one from EWK & trim that one if need be.

Finally, are the pinned on sights available?

I am not sure. Maybe at Numrich?

Does anyone know if there is any uniformity between shrouds and sights in regards to where the hole for the pin is drilled? Were they all drilled the same or when installed did a machinist simply drill the hole with the sight in place and then drive the pin home?
If this is the case even if someone found a pinned sight it would be unlikely the hole in the sight would align with the hole in the shroud. I suppose it could be put in place and re drilled as long as the two holes in the sight did not overlap each other.

As far as I know, the holes in the front sights were all drilled in the same spot…and so were the shrouds. 

Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.

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Different Drummer
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December 30, 2015 - 5:20 pm
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Trying to get the shroud /sight thing straight in my mind.
I now have two High Standards. One of each variety. Mark 2 and a Mark 3. I am trying to get them fitted out with proper barrels and shrouds. I also realize that finding the appropriate High Standard shroud is pretty much impossible.
Here is what I understand in regards to shrouds and sights. I am omitting anything in the external barrel nut era as it does not apply to what I am trying to accomplish.

1) HS Mark 2 = DW 14-1 These are the service models with no or fixed rear sights. Font sights are pinned 90 degrees to the bore. Though not usually referred to as removable they could in fact be removed if the pin is driven out.

2) High Standard Mark 3 = DW 15-1? I add the question mark because I do not seem to see photos or reference to a DW 15-1 This is the target model with readily adjustable ( Via screw adjustment ) rear sight. Front sight is again pinned 90 degrees to the bore and as far a removal or placement the same conditions apply as to the service model front sights. These front sights are taller to match the increased height of the  adjustable rear sight.
 

To complicate things somewhere along the line early on there was a rear sight on these models that were “drift” adjustable. Another animal entirely. Another apparent variation is that the rear sight on the HS seems to be of a somewhat different design than the DW. It appears that the sight block is much shorter on the HS and it might actually sit  slightly lower. {could be a complication later on when we talk about what will work for replacement shrouds and sights )

3) With new style barrel shrouds ( Non Pork chop ) on the 14-2’s that I have seen it looks like the front sight is similar to the earlier Pork chop 14-1 sights in that it is pinned 90 degrees to the bore. It does NOT have the Allen set screw in the muzzle end that runs parallel to the bore. Only 15-2’s have this so called replaceable front  sight. These are sights are are available from EWK for making adjustments in POA/POI . Particularly if using one on a model 14.
If what I say above is incorrect, please someone educate me as to where I am going astray.

My situation is this. I have two HS revolvers. One is a Mark 2 and one is a Mark 3 The mark 2 is a complete HS revolver in all ways with a 4 inch ( really 3.75 as I understand it ) barrel and shroud. All components are appropriate for a HS. So all is good there. I also have a 2.5 inch barrel and shroud from as best I can tell a DW 14-2. The front sight is pinned 90 degrees to the bore and the sight height is obviously that of a service model. From what I know I can use an EWK adapter on my Mark 2 HS and use this 2.5 inch BA with no sight modification. Yes? No? Looking for input.

My Mark 3 ( target model ) Has the short or different from DW rear sight I mentioned above. I have a DW pork chop 4 inch shroud. ( 3.75” or does that apply only to HS shrouds? ) It has what is pretty certainly a front sight for the target model. It is noticeably taller than the service model front sight.
So I am wondering how this DW shroud/front sight will work out on my HS Mark3. If anything it might be too tall and could be filed down. However, I am one who really frowns upon taking a possibly difficult part to find and rendering it to a state where it cannot be returned to original.

Finally, are the pinned on sights available? Does anyone know if there is any uniformity between shrouds and sights in regards to where the hole for the pin is drilled? Were they all drilled the same or when installed did a machinist simply drill the hole with the sight in place and then drive the pin home?
If this is the case even if someone found a pinned sight it would be unlikely the hole in the sight would align with the hole in the shroud. I suppose it could be put in place and re drilled as long as the two holes in the sight did not overlap each other.
I realize that I could just put a 15-2 shroud on the Mark3 using a EWK adapter and then have the advantage of the available removable sight to adjust for POA / POI.  However, I sure would like to use the pork chop I have on hand if at all  possible.

All comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, DD

EDIT:  When using 3.75″ above I guess I should have said barrel not shroud. 

EDIT2:  FOUND A THREAD BY Charger Fan that mentions his 15-1 DW.  So I now know they do exist.  The one photo I could find sure looked just like my HS Mark3.  Even the rear sight.

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rwsem
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January 1, 2016 - 1:45 pm
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Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

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brucertx
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January 1, 2016 - 7:56 pm
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rwsem said
CF- Great information all in one spot; had to pin it!

ditto! worship

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if you find one...what's your plan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Charger Fan
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January 1, 2016 - 11:24 pm
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lol2 Thanks guys! Although I can’t tell if this has been pinned, or if my post just somehow made it to the top of this thread. Gotta love the ‘oldwf and it’s quirks!big-grin

Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.

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Different Drummer
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January 1, 2016 - 11:59 pm
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Thanks Chargerfan,    Actually I do not have a proper SHROUD and barrel for the HS MK3. Someone had put a non pork chop 14-2 SHROUD and barrel on the Revolver.  Ready for this!! It was attached without using the EWK adapter.  I was aware of this when I purchased it. My MK2 has a 4 inch barrel.  I figure  I itcan use the 14-2 SHROUD on my MK2 by utilizing an EWK adapter without worrying about sight incompatibility.  No sure I want to, just saying I could.            I think the barrel that is with this SHROUD will not be the proper length for a Pork Chop application.  Correct?            That leaves the MK3 without a barrel and SHROUD.  I have what is either a M15 or a M15-1 DW pork chop SHROUD.  I am confident it is not a M14 as the sight is taller than the sight on my MK2.   If it is a DW M15-1 It should be a match for my HS MK3.  If it turns out to be a DW M15 it will be too tall.  If so I will need to proceed from there.  Perhaps I can solicit front sight height measurements from someone.  Is there any other way to tell for sure the difference between a M15 and a M15-1 shroud?  So do I have all of that correct?                                               …            …            ….           …    Another question. Does anyone know what the grips are called in the Snubby photos that Chargerfan posted.  I have larger target grips on both the MK2 and MK3.  I would like to get one set of smaller grips but do not want to go all the way down to the “bird’s head” style I have seen.   Thanks to all,  DD

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Ole Dog
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January 2, 2016 - 8:32 pm
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Different Drummer and I have been corresponding. CF has been very helpful. I have a model 11 21/2″ shroud and model 15 21/2″ shroud. If I switch front sights I think the model 15 will be the same as a mk ii.  If DD wants it he has that covered. The tall sight may work on his model 15-1 4″ to make it lower (33/4). Hmm. DD, that grip you like is called Magna style by S+W and a service grip be Ruger and DW. Got you covered. I think I included one in my Karma lot A. But never fear, Ron is here. It depends on how bad you want one😆

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January 3, 2016 - 11:33 pm
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Ole Dog, I’m glad you are in the fray too, in working out the various differences of early DW changes.smile Without looking at my paperwork (73 miles away tonight), I believe you are right on the grip name…service grip. One thing that may be of interest (or not?) is that the grip on the 14 is wood, whereas the grip on the 14-1 is “Powerwood”, a plastic grip made to look like wood. Powerwood grips were only made for about 2-3 years. Sometimes you still almost can’t tell the difference holding each in your hands…pretty neat.

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Ole Dog
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January 4, 2016 - 12:57 am
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Hahaha. I make eBay sellers mad at me by telling them their “wood” grips are plastic. 

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January 4, 2016 - 8:05 am
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Charger Fan said
Ole Dog, I’m glad you are in the fray too, in working out the various differences of early DW changes.smile Without looking at my paperwork (73 miles away tonight), I believe you are right on the grip name…service grip. One thing that may be of interest (or not?) is that the grip on the 14 is wood, whereas the grip on the 14-1 is “Powerwood”, a plastic grip made to look like wood. Powerwood grips were only made for about 2-3 years. Sometimes you still almost can’t tell the difference holding each in your hands…pretty neat

Wonder if that would be an indication that the HS equivalent to the 14-1 ( MK2) is also ” power wood”?

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January 4, 2016 - 7:16 pm
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No, Power wood was just one option for Dan Wesson. Wood was also available. The High Standard grips often had a grooved back strap on the grip. Both the target and the service grip, but not always. I have not seen a HS power wood. They  had High Standard medallions to differentiate from DW. High Standard did not offer the plethora of grips or BA’s that DW did. 

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January 4, 2016 - 10:05 pm
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They also had CHECKERING on the back of the grip on some also. I don’t recall checkering or grooves on the back of DW grips. 

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