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September 21, 2014
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Hello,
I have recently purchased a Dan Wesson 744 that, according to the great information you have gathered in the forum, was probably made in the middle of the 1990's. At present I have the 6 inch barrel on it with the full length lug and ported shroud. the barrel is not ported.
The gun is very consistent, easily holding one inch groups when benched at 25 meters. The problem I am having is that it seems to be throwing the bullets up at a steep angle. At 10 meters the POA equals POI. At 25 meters the POI is about 6 inches above POA. At 50 meters POI is off the paper. The rear sight is bottomed out. The front blade is quite tall. The problem is the same when I have a leupold 4x scope mounted on B-square mounts.
I'm hoping that there is something foolish and simple that I'm overlooking. My goal is to set my sights (iron and scope) to maximize point blank range with the 240 grain hollow point load at approximately 1400fps.
Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated, even if it makes me feel like an idiot.
Jdw
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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You say front sight is quite tall. I ask what sight is on barrel? Is it the ramp sight that came on barrel? when you say benched I assume you men clamped in a bench. Problem I have there is the gun should shoot in the direction you point it clamped down. Personally, I think you should shoot from sand bags, resting your wrists on the bags and not allowing gun to rest. Be sure you are holding the grip with same pressure and placement on each round. That is an awful high throwing, IMO, for only 1400fps. Just me.. What does the bore look like? Have you had the shroud and barrel off? Let us know these things.
BTW, Welcome to DWF!! Glad to have you. We are gonna need some pics of this new acquisition...
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
Dans Club
DWF Supporters
April 20, 2010
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Welcome to the forum, not sure I can giveany good adviceto help you sight in but there are some great guys here who should be along to advise on it.
"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"
September 21, 2014
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Good morning. Thank you, ese927 and lonwolf93 for the welcome and questions.
I should have included that I don't have much experience as a pistol shooter. Rifles, yes, but almost always with a scope.
When I said "benched" I meant hands on top of a rest as you suggest. A friend who shoots a contender told me that was the proper way to do it. I was incredibly happy with the results. The bullets always seems to go to the same place! The problem is, as you say, the "awful high throwing".
I have not had the barrel and shroud off the gun yet, I don't have the tool. Thanks to your website I know where to get it. I'll give them a call today.
The front sight on both barrel shrouds measures approximately 5/16 to the crest and just about 1/4 of an inch to the highest part of the orange insert.
At this point it seems like the barrel and shroud must be shimmed up at an angle! I don't see any evidence of that, but I'm feeling a bit at a loss. Especially because it performs the same with the both the iron sights and the scope mounted on the shroud.
Again, thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate it.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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I dont think the barrel or shroud our shimmed. The way it mounts will not permit. If it is an issue there I would likely say problem with barrel itself. What about when you shoot does it spit lead or have a lot of cutting around the barrel/cylinder gap.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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Not impossible for the barrel to be ported and just not aligned correctly. This could be a possible cause? I do not believe the rear sight has to be screwed all way to bottom unless there be some damage to the weapon. IMHO, and without the weapon in hand.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
September 21, 2014
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I ordered the wrench just a few minutes ago from EWK. Significantly cheaper than the Norwich, NY Dan Wesson parts supplier. It looks like it will be here in a few days and I can take off the shroud and see what the barrel looks like. I don't think it's a ported barrel, but there are only two reasons I have for thinking that. The first is that when I look through the holes in the shroud I don't see any holes in the barrel. Do they usually line up? The second is that I have read in other posts here that the ported barrels are really dirty... I don't have any comparison, but the shroud looks just as clean around the ports as it does everywhere else.
Regarding spitting lead, I just don't know. Would this be cutting my hands? I was told that with a revolver I should keep my fingers away from the front of the cylinder, so I have been. I definitely feel air blasting back past my face when I fire the gun, and that is from an arms length in front of me! I chalked this up to the .44 magnum revolver experience, but maybe I shouldn't have!
I don't see any cuts on the cylinder face. The only noticeable thing is that there are burn marks on the cylinder. It looks as though residue (powder, lead, maybe just a burn) is building up on the outside front of the cylinder when the gases go along the top of the frame and slightly back along the top center of the cylinder. Now that I look at it, this is visible in the picture I posted earlier. Is this normal?
I agree, it seems very odd to have the rear sight bottomed out. It seemed odd when I purchased it; that's definitely the position it was in when I got it. Maybe this is why it was for sale in the first place... woops.
Thanks again for your thoughts. I'll let you know what I find when I get the shroud removed and have a look at the barrel.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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Maybe we should wait til the barrel can be checked and gap adjusted correctly. I think that rear sight should be brought up a few turns after these other things and try again. The cutting I refer to would be the fire coming from barrel/cylinder gap and burning at top of frame strap.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
April 25, 2008
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Looking at your gun picture, your rear sight is bent down from the mounting tang...that part that attaches the rear sight to the frame. I had one that someone also dropped before I got it that looked the same. The rear sight is bottoming out in the frame notch. You can remove the sight, bend the tang back up and reinstall the sight. That will allow the sight to be lowered some more.
The Savantist
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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jdw- You will not see a port in the barrel line up with a port in the shroud. The barrel has a series of holes bored into it that allow the gases escape into the void space between the barrel and shroud, and then they somehow find their way out through the two tiny slots in the shroud. A pretty non functional porting system, one of the things DW did not get right.
What can happen in this system is that the void space inside the shroud fills up with crud, it can be a mess to unravel. It may be possible that this junk has built up to the point that your barrel is stressed slightly out of perfectly straight causing POA/POI issues. I know sounds pretty strange, even I would be surprised if this is the cause, it's just a WAG!
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
September 21, 2014
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Thanks IHMSA80x80 and Steve CT.
Now that you point it out, I compared my rear sight to other photos and it does look as though it is bent a bit and not seating perfectly in the frame. It feels solid right now, so I'm not going to mess with it until after I get a look at the barrel. My feeling is that I might loosen it with more bending and, while it may be a contributing factor, I don't think the drop I gain will make up for a 6 inch rise in bullet flight in the 15 meters between 10 and 25! : ) Did it make that much difference in yours?
Steve CT, as sad as it may sound, I'm hoping that it's a gunk issue. That would make me very happy. Here's to taking off the shroud and having it filled to the brim with years and years of crud.
Thanks for the thoughts. If nothing else, I'm definitely learning about possible problems that may arise in the future even if they aren't the cause of what ails me right now.
ese927, I will definitely hold off on firing again until after the shroud, barrel, and gap are checked. Thanks.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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that pic of the close up sight looks like it is screwed down to the bottom... may be wrong
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
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DWF Supporters
February 16, 2013
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jdw, This my be too obvious but are the springs under the rear sight??
September 21, 2014
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The rear sight is screwed down all the way, and yes, the springs are underneath it. Even if I removed the springs, I don't think I could get it to go any lower. The bend, if it is accidental and not original, just changed the angle of the sight block right at the metal arm so that it doesn't match the cut-out in the frame like some other pictures show on other similar Dan Wesson revolvers. Again, I don't have anything to compare it to before/after or comparison to another pistol like it.
September 21, 2014
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I didn't get the barrel wrench yet, but I did get a feeler gauge at the auto parts store. The cylinder to barrel gap is very consistently .011. Could this cause a consistent high shot? I have read here that many DW .44 shooters on the forum are setting this gap as low as .002 or .003, and that the recommended gap is .006. When I get the wrench I can remove and clean the barrel assembly and then reset the gap.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Dan's were all shipped with a .006 gauge until the SuperMags went into production. The SuperMags were all shipped with .002 gauges.
Personally, I gap all of my Dan's at .002. This means that on most Monson and many Palmer guns you have to be certain that you are setting the gap at the tightest position on the cylinder. Otherwise the cylinder will bind at some point. Most Monson and many Palmer guns do not have flat cylinder faces which is of no concern if you gap at .006 since the difference across the cylinder face is generally less than .002 anyway.
Maybe the .011 is a problem. It's certainly worth trying to set the gap correctly.
-Mike
September 21, 2014
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According to the tracking website, the wrench should arrive tomorrow. I'll post pictures of what I find. I'll definitely set the gap at .006 or less when everything goes back together, and whatever is in there I'll be glad for any input regarding what looks normal and what looks like it could cause high shots. I'll also try the second barrel. I'm hoping for some big steps forward this weekend.
Thanks for your help thus far.
September 21, 2014
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The wrench arrived right in time from EWKarms today. I'm almost sad to report that while there was some build up in both barrel nuts it wasn't anything substantial.
I rolled both barrels across a flat surface and they seem perfect. No wobble, and with a light behind them there is a consistent sliver of light underneath them add they roll; a little light at the frame end tapering down to no light at the nut end.
I set the cylinder gap at .003 and it is fine for three, but the other three are tighter at the to of the barrel/cylinder gap than they are at the bottom.
I put the second barrel (I have not yet tried this one) in the shroud I already tried and put it on the gun to test tomorrow.
Thanks again for your suggestions.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Set your gap to the tightest position on the cylinder face. That way all positions will be at least what you set and there will be no binding issues.
My procedure:
1. Set the gap @ .002.
2. Pull the trigger 6 times and try the gauge at each position.
3. If you encounter na position where the gauge cannot be inserted, re-gap that position and repeat from #2.
This sometimes requires several re-gaps and re-starts. But after pulling the trigger 6 times you are back at the starting position and all is fine.
-Mike
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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good Idea testing other barrel. And now you know barrels are straight. Set the gap on the tightest chambers to .003 and the check gap at larger gaps. Setting tightest chamber to your gap should prevent binding. try firing some factory bullets as well as your loads.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
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